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A Discussion Question - Mo's Journal
November 10th, 2011
07:02 pm

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A Discussion Question
If Brett Ratner had said "Rehearsing is for pussies" instead of "Rehearsing is for fags" would he still be producing the Oscars? Why or why not?

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From:st_crispins
Date:November 11th, 2011 12:07 am (UTC)
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He would have gotten away with pussies.
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From:mofic
Date:November 11th, 2011 12:14 am (UTC)
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I think so too. So, why? Because it's okay to slam women and not gay men? Because homophobia is at base motivated by hatred of women (i.e. gay men are denigrated because they are perceived to be acting like women)? Something else?
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From:lilacsigil
Date:November 11th, 2011 12:35 am (UTC)
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Because women are STILL not important in Hollywood. Gay men are, at least behind the scenes.

Also, I think that "pussies" is (wrongly) seen as not misogynist because it's directed at men, not women.
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From:mofic
Date:November 11th, 2011 01:40 am (UTC)
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I think misogyny is so pervasive that it's kind of not noticed. I think it's not so much that "pussies" is okay because it's directed at men, but that trying to belittle men by comparing them to women (or women's body parts) is considered just fine because it so universally accepted that women are inferior to men.

I also think - as I said above - that homophobia is mostly misogyny. Gay men are hated because they're viewed as accepting a woman's role or as subverting masculinity.
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From:lilacsigil
Date:November 11th, 2011 02:31 am (UTC)
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Well, I think we've (mostly) better on immediately idenfiable misogyny but anything that relies on "women are inferior" rather than actually attacking a specific woman or women just slides on by because it's so normal. And I definitely agree about homophobia being, to a large extent, misogyny - gay men subvert masculinity, lesbians dare to not need a man.
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From:mofic
Date:November 11th, 2011 02:51 pm (UTC)
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Yeah, I agree. There's so much in our language that presupposes female inferiority that we just don't notice it.
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From:sabra_n
Date:November 11th, 2011 12:36 am (UTC)
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"Pussies" would have passed. This is the misogynist creep who talked shit about sleeping with Olivia Munn and Lindsey Lohan, too, and he still got the job. (Seriously, it just mystifies me that this guy keeps working. He's not even a serviceable director; he's actively bad. And they give him the Oscars?!)
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From:lilacsigil
Date:November 11th, 2011 01:28 am (UTC)
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I'm still angry about X3, dammit! It's sort of satisfying to know he's not just some poor guy who inherited a mess but actually an asshole.
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From:sabra_n
Date:November 11th, 2011 01:29 am (UTC)
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I know, right? Now we can hate him on all fronts. :P
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From:mofic
Date:November 11th, 2011 01:44 am (UTC)
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LOL! I really knew nothing about him before this, other than that he screwed up X3.
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From:realpestilence
Date:November 11th, 2011 01:22 am (UTC)
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Definitely. He might have had to apologize to smooth ruffled feathers, but he would have been there.

Mysogyny is still not, despite many advances, as popular a cause to be "anti" towards as racisim, homophobia, or even religious differences.
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From:mofic
Date:November 11th, 2011 01:45 am (UTC)
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I don't think he even would have had to apologize! I think it would have been considered a completely innocuous line.
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From:kuriadalmatia
Date:November 11th, 2011 01:50 am (UTC)
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If Ratner had said "pussies", it wouldn't have made that many waves. People would have shrugged it off and probably laughed. I think it's because 'pussy' doesn't hit on the "insult radar" like fag, faggot, homo, etc. even though it should.
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From:wneleh
Date:November 13th, 2011 11:08 pm (UTC)
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I don't even twig on "pussy" as being anti-woman, except in the context of, "I want some pussy" or whatever. Otherwise, I think of it as being synonymous with "wuss" or "wimp." Well, a little worse, because I wouldn't use "pussy" but I would say "rehearsing is for wimps" (ironically, of course).

OTOH, the use of "fag" in any context except wood-gathering says something specific about the speaker's inner dialog.

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From:mofic
Date:November 13th, 2011 11:50 pm (UTC)
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I think of it as being synonymous with "wuss" or "wimp."

Yes, but isn't it synonymous with wimp because it implies that women are weak? Like - on the other end of the continuum - saying someone "has balls" to mean he's strong or courageous or exhorting someone to "man up."
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From:wneleh
Date:November 14th, 2011 10:58 am (UTC)
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Oh, I get that now, I just hadn't thought of the root of the word. That happens to me with slurs all the time.
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