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Privilege Meme - Mo's Journal
January 2nd, 2008
11:22 am

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Privilege Meme
I got this from marag who got it from minisinoo (I don't know how I missed it on Min's journal). Min got it from What Privileges Do You Have?, based on an exercise about class and privilege developed by Will Barratt, Meagan Cahill, Angie Carlen, Minnette Huck, Drew Lurker, Stacy Ploskonka at Illinois State University. If you participate in this blog game, they ask that you PLEASE acknowledge their copyright.

I think it's very interesting. I'm doing it twice - once for me and once for my kids. Bold means yes. Italics are commentary.

ETA: I'm enjoying reading this on others' journals and I'd also like to hear what folks think of the instrument itself. To what extent do you think this really is a good measure of privilege? What else would you put in or what would you leave out?

For Me:

1. Father went to college
And med school.
2. Father finished college
3. Mother went to college
4. Mother finished college
5. Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor
My father was a physician. I didn't have any attorneys in the family. A cousin was a professor.
6. Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers.
7. Had more than 50 books in your childhood home.
8. Had more than 500 books in your childhood home.
9. Were read children's books by a parent.
10. Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18
11. Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18
I went to Hebrew School. I wouldn't have thought to count that, except that marag did. But I had piano, violin, swimming and ice skating lessons.
12. The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively.
13. Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18. I didn't have this - I don't know if you could get them for kids when I was a kid - but my mother used to give me hers to use with a note fairly often. I got one for Doran when he was 14 and going to Costa Rica. At the time Visa was fairly well accepted there but there weren't ATMs so it seemed like a good idea.
14. Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs. My parents paid a majority until they disowned me. Then they paid nothing, so it came to much less than half.
15. Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs
16. Went to a private high school
17. Went to summer camp I went to day camp (and hated it) most summers as a child. I had a few forays into sleepover camp.
18. Had a private tutor before you turned 18. I didn't - and I don't think any of my sibs did, either. OTOH if this is a privilege meme, I'm not sure it's such a good question, since we definitely could have had tutors if we needed them.
19. Family vacations involved staying at hotels Not sure whether to bold this. They did sometimes but not as a regular thing. During my childhood we stayed in hotels on vacation four times that I remember.
20. Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18
21. Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them.
22. There was original art in your house when you were a child.
23. You and your family lived in a single-family house
24. Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home
They owned their own house for my whole life.
25. You had your own room as a child I always shared, but all of my siblings at one point or another had their own rooms.
26. You had a phone in your room before you turned 18.
27. Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course. Like the tutor one, I don't see this as a measure of privilege. If I'd wanted to take a course, I could have, but I got the test-taking gene and didn't need any prep.
28. Had your own TV in your room in high school.
29. Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college.
30. Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16 I flew on a commercial airline at two weeks.
31. Went on a cruise with your family.
32. Went on more than one cruise with your family.
33. Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up. Again, this was a rare event but it happened.
34. You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family.



For my kids:




1. Mother went to college
2. Mother finished college
3. Mother went to college
4. Mother finished college
Two mothers, so I changed it.
5. Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor. I'm not counting my father as my kids' relative. My kids know lots of attorneys, physicians and professors, but aren't related to any.
6. Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers.
7. Had more than 50 books in your childhood home.
8. Had more than 500 books in your childhood home.
9. Were read children's books by a parent.
10. Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18.
11. Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18
My kids all had swimming lessons and Hebrew school and dance. Doran had clarinet lessons; Kendra had art classes; Zara had quite an assortment, because she was in after school at our elementary school and they offered drama, knitting, etc.
12. The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively.
13. Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18.
14. Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs.
This one is assuming I can get the equity out of the apartment to pay - so far it's certainly true, but I've only paid for two semesters.
15. Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs
16. Went to a private high school
17. Went to summer camp
18. Had a private tutor before you turned 18
They've all had private bar/bat mitzvah tutoring. Doran has had math tutoring; Kendra organizational/homework tutoring.
19. Family vacations involved staying at hotels
20. Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18
21. Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them.
22. There was original art in your house when you were a child.
23. You and your family lived in a single-family house
24. Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home
25. You had your own room as a child
26. You had a phone in your room before you turned 18
I live in 750 square feet, but there are four phones in the apartment (not counting cell phones).
27. Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course I tutored Doran, because he asked me to. He could have done a class instead.
28. Had your own TV in your room in high school I got Doran a tv/vcr combo for his bar mitzvah. Zara has a tv in her room at the other house.
29. Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college
30. Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16
31. Went on a cruise with your family.
32. Went on more than one cruise with your family
33. Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up.
34. You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family.




Since only one of the kids is over 18, there's some projection there. Some of the differences are interesting to me. My kids have never lived in a single family home, for example, but in New York City to have a single family home represents a much higher class - usually - than it does in most of the country. And heating bills are generally not paid for individually here - in a rental apartment they're reflected in rent and in a coop they're in the maintenance - so my kids are unaware partly because it's obscured by circumstance.

Another difference is that my parents could have paid for most or all of my college, but chose not to, and I'm trying very hard to pay for my kids' college.

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From:thinking_lotus
Date:January 2nd, 2008 05:13 pm (UTC)
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I thought I remembered your kids have investments in their name? Tom does and I did as a kid.

Otherwise my answers would be pretty much the same as yours, but maybe I'll do it anyway.

I see the investments in one's one name as the real marker of privilege, for some reason.

Do you see anything on the list as the most revelatory?
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From:mofic
Date:January 2nd, 2008 06:08 pm (UTC)
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I'm not sure what you mean by investments in their names. My parents did buy and sell stocks in our names - I guess there are some tax advantages to putting it in the kid's name? I think their original idea was that they were supposed to fund our college educations, but then some recession in the late 1960s or early 1970s ended that. Doran had Series EE savings bonds in his name (just cashed them in for college). And my friend David kindly bought a shares in a few companies for my kids (and liquidated Doran's recently, also to help pay for his first year in college). Is that the kind of marker of privilege you mean?

What was particularly interesting to me is how blacker my kids' list is than mine. They have 24 bold vs. my 18 bold. But in socioeconomic terms, I'd say my life is one of downward mobility. I grew up in what was by any measure an upper middle class family: professional father, SAH mother, large house in the suburbs, two cars, etc. I live in a small urban apartment with my three kids and struggle to support them on a civil servants family.

Yet by this test, they're more privileged than I was. Is that true? Or just an artifact of the particular measures chosen? To a great extent, the things not bolded in my childhood reflect choices my parents made, not their ability to pay. But privilege is more than socioeconomic status, it's true.
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From:thinking_lotus
Date:January 2nd, 2008 06:45 pm (UTC)
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'm not sure what you mean by investments in their names. My parents did buy and sell stocks in our names - I guess there are some tax advantages to putting it in the kid's name? I think their original idea was that they were supposed to fund our college educations, but then some recession in the late 1960s or early 1970s ended that. Doran had Series EE savings bonds in his name (just cashed them in for college). And my friend David kindly bought a shares in a few companies for my kids (and liquidated Doran's recently, also to help pay for his first year in college). Is that the kind of marker of privilege you mean?

Yes. That a parent or relative or family friend invested money to benefit a child's future.

What was particularly interesting to me is how blacker my kids' list is than mine. They have 24 bold vs. my 18 bold.

Tom has a few more than I do, mainly because of the TV/phone thing and the travel thing. But I think he has less privilege then I do, mostly because he is growing up in Brooklyn and not Fairfield County. My house cost more than my parents' when they bought it, but their house is worth a lot more now--like 10x what they paid for it.

I feel less downwardly mobile now than I did when I was in my 20s.

Things like new clothes and phones and TV and travel are a lot cheaper than they used to be, relative to income, which may be part of it.

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From:mofic
Date:January 2nd, 2008 06:58 pm (UTC)
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My parents' house cost $40,000 when they bought it :-). I don't know if it would be worth more than our coop now. Maybe, maybe not - but certainly more than 10x what it cost when they bought it.

Do you really think clothes and TV and travel are cheaper, relative to income? I'll give you phones :-) but I'm not so sure on the others.

I do think travel is cheaper for me than my parents when I was growing up, due to family size. We only once flew somewhere once there were five kids, and never once there were six. And we could never fit in one hotel room.

Travel was cheaper for me when there were fewer of us. When Doran was a baby we went a lot of places, often tying them to a business trip of mine, so we were only paying for one air fare plus incidentals. I think he went 10 or 11 places involving airplane travel before he turned two. Kendra went *one* before two - a family vacation to Oregon and California. But by then it cost us three tickets (or two, if I was going somewhere on business).

Hand me down clothes I just see as a way of life. I imagine there are *some* people so well off they don't accept handmedowns, but I don't think I know any personally.
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From:thefourthvine
Date:January 2nd, 2008 07:56 pm (UTC)
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What was particularly interesting to me is how blacker my kids' list is than mine. They have 24 bold vs. my 18 bold. But in socioeconomic terms, I'd say my life is one of downward mobility.

Your kids also are roughly the right age demographic for the meme; I suspect it was designed to be used by college students, and it doesn't seem, going by my friends list, to work particularly well for people over the age of 40 or so. (Doesn't work in that they tend to come out under-bolded.) Like, people in that age category are much less likely to have had phones or TVs in their rooms, no matter how privileged they were.

So you're kind of comparing - not apples to oranges, but the norms are different. To compare you to your children properly, you'd have to, like, multiply the number of bolded items by a generation factor. (Not that I think there is any way to norm this meme/quiz thing or make it valid.)
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From:mofic
Date:January 2nd, 2008 08:09 pm (UTC)
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That's a really good point! It was intended to be a test for college kids, although I'm not sure when it was developed.

Some of the things on the list (like TV and telephone in your own room and cruises) were much less common in my childhood. Some others, though, really represent more of an urban/non-urban difference than a privilege one (like the single family home and the going to museums thing).

Mostly I think it's interesting to think about these things and what constitutes privilege.
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From:brak666
Date:January 2nd, 2008 10:45 pm (UTC)
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I'm not sure about some of these. We always lived in a single family house, but it was because it was provided by my father's employer. We were pretty damn poor when I was a kid, but my parents worked hard to shield me from it. In fact, I didn't even know we were on food stamps until my mother told me this year. They saved their money, my mother went to school and got a job, and by the time I got to high school we were a lot better off. So part of me is wondering what age I should be thinking of myself as when answering these questions, because they would be different for different parts of my life.
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From:mofic
Date:January 3rd, 2008 11:39 am (UTC)
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What kind of work did your father do that came with a house?

So part of me is wondering what age I should be thinking of myself as when answering these questions, because they would be different for different parts of my life.

Well, you can do it however you want. Generally, though, as thefourthvine points out, it's meant for kids in college, which is why many of the questions are posed as things that happened before you were 18. That's how I looked at it with the ones that don't specify. So, for example, having gone to summer camp at any time before 18 gave a yes.
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From:brak666
Date:January 3rd, 2008 10:03 pm (UTC)
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My father is a Lutheran minister. We never could've afforded a home on what he made (or even what he makes now which is still less than $40,000 a year). When I was young we didn't have much money at all. When my sister and I were old enough to be left home alone, my mother went back to school. She's an accountant now and is definitely the bread winner. Also my father started a small business (computer consulting) when I was in elementary school, so by the time I got to high school, things were very different from when I was younger.
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From:mofic
Date:January 4th, 2008 02:13 am (UTC)
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I almost asked if he was clergy, but then I thought maybe it's only rabbis who get a house with the position...

Edited at 2008-01-04 02:13 am (UTC)
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From:kestrelsparhawk
Date:January 3rd, 2008 04:27 am (UTC)

So who defined "privilege"?

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I'm going to post my answers, and some discussion, in a day or two, and you will NOT be surprised it's because the survey made me so angry I don't think I can be reasonable right away. I think it was the inclusion of being given a car not a hand me down from parents as privilege (no question!) but NOT including "being given a car by your parents."!!!! Not to mention no distinction made for people who went to public colleges versus private colleges, or community vs. four-year colleges.

But mostly, I think "privilege" is being defined by academic liberals who don't quite see the difference between intellectual and economic privilege -- my bet is, raised middle class. To have a relative who's a physician is privileged, but to have a relative (or parent) who's the CEO of a corporation ISN'T? Give me a break. They seem to have read "The New Class" (sociologist; forget his name, starts with G) and bought into the argument that there's another class who run things to suit themselves, but measure success by intellect rather than money. don't get me started...

So I'd add a few questions that to me measure privilege infinitely more: If you ran out of milk or bread in the middle of the week, your family got more. Although you lived in a city, you had fresh fruits and vegetables and/or juices regularly. You had fresh meat (as opposed to canned meat and fish) regularly,not just for special occasions and payday. You had an allowance. If the toast or the soup got burned and tasted horrible, it was thrown away without a parent demanding that you eat it anyway.

And that's just the food! (I haven't had dinner yet, so it came first to mind.) If you earned money as a teenager, you got to keep it and not contribute it to household income. You got new clothes on other occasions than your birthday, Christmas, or Hanukkah. You had the correct shoes for all extracurricular activities. Your parents paid for your yearbook pictures. If your school charged for those activities, they considered that normal school expenses.

And the biggest biggies of all: dealing with the System growing up. You never cleaned, or watched your mother clean, the house because the social worker was coming. You never shopped with food stamps and saw how people looked at the food you were buying, deciding if you should be buying that with food stamps. The police didn't know who you were unless you broke the law. Oh, and speaking of that -- you never shoplifted food or aspirin.

Aggh. Sorry it's so long. But you did ask -- and you know my button!
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From:mofic
Date:January 3rd, 2008 11:37 am (UTC)

Re: So who defined "privilege"?

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Those are all interesting points. I think quizzes like this can't capture any of those nuances, but I'm quite interested by the discussion and by what people see as privilege or not.
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From:mofic
Date:January 3rd, 2008 11:35 am (UTC)

Re: So who defined "privilege"?

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But mostly, I think "privilege" is being defined by academic liberals who don't quite see the difference between intellectual and economic privilege --

Yes, or as someone else said - it conflates economic privilege and cultural privilege.

To have a relative who's a physician is privileged, but to have a relative (or parent) who's the CEO of a corporation ISN'T?

Well, as someone else pointed out, this has the effect of not capturing the high end of privilege in a lot of cases. thinking_lotus scored no on flying on a commercial airline before 16, because she only flew on her father's jet, for example :-).

If the toast or the soup got burned and tasted horrible, it was thrown away without a parent demanding that you eat it anyway.

That reminds me of something in an article in the Times recently on someone who teaches class issues to teachers. Anyway, she said that of a meal she's made, working class mothers ask "Have you had enough to eat?"; middle class mothers ask "Did it taste good?" and rich mothers ask if it was presented well. I told my kids that, because I always ask them if they had enough. Kendra said she's sure all mothers ask that because we all worry about our kids getting enough to eat. Who knows?
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From:thinking_lotus
Date:January 3rd, 2008 05:56 pm (UTC)

Re: So who defined "privilege"?

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anime_heart scored no on flying on a commercial airline before 16, because she only flew on her father's jet, for example :-).

IT WASN'T A JET!!!

it was a single-engine cessna, bought used.

Private jets are another category altogether!
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From:mofic
Date:January 3rd, 2008 06:09 pm (UTC)

Re: So who defined "privilege"?

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LOL! Sorry. You did mention it was used - I should have put that in - but I didn't know a "single engine Cessna" isn't a jet!
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From:kestrelsparhawk
Date:January 7th, 2008 11:42 pm (UTC)

Re: So who defined "privilege"?

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working class mothers ask "Have you had enough to eat?"; middle class mothers ask "Did it taste good?" and rich mothers ask if it was presented well. I told my kids that, because I always ask them if they had enough. Kendra said she's sure all mothers ask that because we all worry about our kids getting enough to eat. Who knows?

I've been thinking about this one for days. My mother never asked us if we had enough, or if it tasted good, that I remember. I think it's because there was nothing she could do about it if we answered "no."
From:willbarratt
Date:January 7th, 2008 12:06 am (UTC)

Re: So who defined "privilege"?

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I accidentally posted as Anon above - sorry. I am fascinated that people react as you seem to have. I would be very curious why you responded that way. The team who designed this are quite diverse in many ways, so your guess of middle class academic liberals is way off. One model we use for class is from Bourdieu (economic, cultural, and social capital) and expand that to include academic capital because of our campus context.

Class is really really complicated and this is an elementary awareness experience, and I am glad that people are reacting to it. I am sorry to have made you angry.

Will
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From:kestrelsparhawk
Date:January 7th, 2008 12:37 am (UTC)

Re: So who defined "privilege"?

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Thanks for your feedback. I'm fascinated that you're using Bourdieu (somebody I admire, though I haven't read him since grad school) and wonder if you've also thought about Christine Delphy, who talks about power relationships in domestic situations and might be/have been useful?

First, you did NOT make me angry -- I was raised mixed class and talking about class just triggers all my buttons. I shouldn't ever post on the things that matter most to me the first three days. I'm delighted you responded, though if we carry on this conversation for long I suspect Mo would prefer we take it to my LJ, just to avoid spamming her list... But she started the thread, so whatever she prefers, I figure. Knowing her, she's reading this!

Gad, where do I start? I've been writing about this, but I've also agreed to write a series on fiction writing for a friend, so they're kind of crammed together. I hope you noted the part where I said I really appreciated your problematizing class on campus (though I also hope I said it more simply!). I am uneasy using the word "capital" for non-material privilege; I mean, certainly academic credentials can assist to gain privilege, and are privilege, but they are not capital in the sense that, say, owning real estate offers capital, because who exchanges the labour? However, my knowledge of marxist political economy is much smaller than his cultural heirs (my discipline was cultural studies) so I may be misunderstanding the concept a bit.

The problem is, as you suggested, class is messy. It's interwoven with all sorts of power relationships, and I think I'm unsure of your definition. I thought for awhile after I read your post. When I think "class" I think "naturalization of lack of privilege" -- or in cs talk, the ideological nets which keep the economic base secure for those in economic power, ie the ruling class. I think of the middle class -- most of the ones who mark "yes" to assumptions of entitlement in your survey, I suspect (statistically, it's a reasonable guess) as actually a privileged portion of the working class, desperately trying to get enough capital to be ruling class themselves.

So then I would ask, "which privileges ensure that those in power stay in power? Which are ones middle class people will generally never see? (Like the one Mo cited who answered "no" on riding a commercial plane because her father's jet took her where she was going.) Because, while it seems your goal is to denaturalize privilege (and a fine goal that is!) I would argue that denaturalizing the privilege of the ruling class is equally important. Otherwise we end up with a lot of defensiveness and republicans.

Long again. How does this fit with your analysis? And do tell me who you organized and where -- I LOVE meeting other organizers.

And if you were the one who asked to friend me -- feel free! There's the occasional rant and the occasional fiction post. I don't even notice who my friends are mostly, because they're waiting for me to produce more fiction and I'm very slow at that! If you're discussing class and teaching and such in your LJ, I'd love to friend you as well.
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From:mofic
Date:January 7th, 2008 01:24 am (UTC)

Re: So who defined "privilege"?

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I'm happy to have this discussion continue here or in kestrelsparhawk's journal or both. I'll read it with interest in either place.
From:willbarratt
Date:January 7th, 2008 12:09 pm (UTC)

Re: So who defined "privilege"?

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What a wonderful analysis. Class is really messy, different groups use different forms of power (using either French and Raven's model or Galbraith's) and different genders use it differently, and ethnicity . . . well it gets wonderfully messy and that is why a good discussion pulls in good stuff.

The experience was designed only to begin an awareness discussion so that we can move on to other things reflecting a more complicated view of class, similar to Peggy McIntosh's privilege experience.

I cannot write for my colleagues and my definition of class is multifaceted. In workshops I go through several definitions, show their utility and then show their limitations. Bourdieu and the modern Marxists are great, and needs to include other forms of capital. "Social class is a collection of subcultures arranged in a hierarchy of prestige." is mine and it helps see class from a cultural perspective, however the multicultural mantra is that all cultures are equivalent, but this denies the inherent inequality of class. I use an identity model that I wrote, we all have a social class of origin, a current felt social class, and an attributed social class, and then talk about identity transition. I use Hollingshead's model (occupational prestige and educational attainment) as a starting point for measurement but it is an inadequate model for working with people. I have added an intergenerational piece to Hollingshead to account for generational shifts in class.

Who defines privilege and prestige - we all co-create it every day and until we stop doing that, which we never will, class will be with us.

Thanks for all of the great comments.

Will
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From:thinking_lotus
Date:January 7th, 2008 06:50 pm (UTC)

Re: So who defined "privilege"?

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So then I would ask, "which privileges ensure that those in power stay in power? Which are ones middle class people will generally never see? (Like the one Mo cited who answered "no" on riding a commercial plane because her father's jet took her where she was going.)



Let's just nip this in the bud right now.

That was me and IT WAS NOT A JET. It was a single engine, 4 seater cessna, purchased used, and more like a beat-up VW bus with wings than any sleek aerodynamic vision the phrase "private plane" might bring to mind.
[User Picture]
From:mofic
Date:January 7th, 2008 01:23 am (UTC)

Re: So who defined "privilege"?

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Hi there. Thanks for dropping in. In case you're interested, I did a post later on on how people are reacting to this meme, which I've followed through a few journals and mailing lists.
[User Picture]
From:kestrelsparhawk
Date:January 7th, 2008 01:34 am (UTC)

PS -- oops

(Link)
Sorry, Will, I read responses on email first, and had several for various reasons. I was thinking you were the organizer, and that turned out to be someone else! So don't take that as some weird expectation about yourself. OTOH, do tell me what you teach and how you happened to (with colleagues) develop that instrument.
From:willbarratt
Date:January 7th, 2008 11:57 am (UTC)

Re: PS -- oops

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I teach student affairs and higher education, gradate students, at Indiana State University. My students go on to be Deans, etc. My interest in class goes way back and I have been working on class seriously for about 4 years, always with students. Our educational point is awareness - people need to be aware of class - this can lead to change. The experience is designed as an awareness experience to last about 10-20 minutes including discussion. Our programmatic point is that colleges, at least most, don't include class as on any programmatic level. We have women's centers, African-American centers, and all manner of very important programs, but for class we have nothing.

The awareness experience nearly always engenders anger in participants, which I find curious. Many people want to be higher, some want to be lower, some don't want to know. It also generates denial of differences - by point out differences we are emphasizing difference at the cost of harmony.

The awareness experience also generates interesting insight, as it has done in the conversation above. A parent looking at class over the generations is a fine example of wonderful insight. I am greatly encouraged by the discussion and not at all disturbed at being called any of a number of things. Those people don't know me well enough to dislike me and are making assumptions about me, and the group, based on a text based experience.

The items come from our collective experiences and the literature. They reflect the kinds of things that you find more commonly among those with resources (economic, cultural, social, academic, and what have you) and less common among those without. The exceptions are huge, but in general, these reflect elements of privilege. Much like White Privilege, Christian Privilege, and other forms of privilege we need to recognize how we all co-construct privilege.

Will
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