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Is M/M Slash Like Pseudo-Lesbian Porn Produced for Straight Men? - Mo's Journal
January 22nd, 2009
02:22 pm

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Is M/M Slash Like Pseudo-Lesbian Porn Produced for Straight Men?

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From:fajrdrako
Date:January 22nd, 2009 08:57 pm (UTC)
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I do think women liking slash and men liking lesbian porn are similar aspects of sexual psychology. The differences reflect difference in sexuals reactions. More... form than substances. Yes, women like text, men like pictures. I think the familiarity of the personalities and their identities is important to women - which is why slash is about specific men visually familiar from television and movies. Male porn is less based on individuality; any sexual 'type' will do.

Since I am a bisexual female, and since I like femslash as well as m/m slash (though I prefer m/m slash) I can't really react to, or relate to, your comment about het women finding femslash yucky. Most of the women I know either love it, or are indifferent to it. I know Lesbian women who are unaroused by men in general, but who love slash and find it sexy. And I know a very, very high proportion of slash fans who are bi or gay. HIgh, that is, compared to the out population in general. This may be just because slash fandom tends to be gay-friendly (by definition!), and it's a safe environment to be uncloseted in.

Myself, I don't like feminized men in slash, unless the source material warrants it. But I think that's a matter of specific tastes and kinks, nothing to do with slash as a whole, which is big enough to include any number of extremes.

Porn written by/for/about Lesbians is traditionally very like porn about Lesbians written by/for men. I know lesbians who like m/m slash; I've yet to meet fully homosexual men who go for lesbian erotica or femslash. For what it's worth.

I also find that there are exceptions to every generality a person could possibly think of.

So I think some of your generalizations are true and some are not, because fandom is a very diverse group.


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From:mofic
Date:January 22nd, 2009 09:25 pm (UTC)
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Well, I did say they wouldn't be true for everybody. I don't think *any* of the things I'm saying apply to all slashers. Most don't apply to me and I'm a slasher :-).

Oh, and I guess I wasn't clear. I wasn't talking about femmeslash in particular but about *women*. I read lots of comments from women saying that they like slash because they don't want porn that has women in it. I don't think that's true for all slashers or even a majority of slashers, but I think it's something that comes up as a fairly frequent minority opinion - it particularly comes up when people are upset at slash writers having het couples in the story. And I think that's different from the reaction of some men, which I described.

Anyway, sorry I wasn't clear on intent here...

Oh, and you say "Porn written by/for/about Lesbians is traditionally very like porn about Lesbians written by/for men." but that very much has not been my experience at all. I do think that porn by and for lesbians - in general - is very different from what's produced for men.



Edited at 2009-01-22 09:27 pm (UTC)
[User Picture]
From:fajrdrako
Date:January 22nd, 2009 11:44 pm (UTC)
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I read lots of comments from women saying that they like slash because they don't want porn that has women in it.

Yeah. That's something I have trouble understanding - but that's the thing with sexual tastes. If it's the same as your own, it seems natural. If it isn't, it's hard to understand. I think that's why there's so much homophobia in the world: differing orientation is something a lot of people have a lot of trouble accepting, and it hasn't much to do with anything sociological or even psychological, it's purely a matter of neurochemistry.

Slash fans seems to be an interesting subset of a lot of things - sometimes a tight demographic, sometimes cutting right across all the boundaries you'd expect.

And on that last paragraph - *blush* - I totally misspoke. (Typing too fast?) I meant what you said: that stuff for men and stuff for women is entirely different.
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From:mofic
Date:January 23rd, 2009 01:42 am (UTC)
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Yeah. That's something I have trouble understanding - but that's the thing with sexual tastes. If it's the same as your own, it seems natural. If it isn't, it's hard to understand.

I see what you're saying, but I sort of think it's worth trying to understand in both cases - one's own and those of other people. And worth understanding how and why preferences change over time, too. But the risk of analyzing those kinks that seem foreign or harder to understand is that you can fall off the cliff into judgmentalism, or appear to. So it's kind of risky business.

On the other thing, it happens to everybody. My ex used to call that kind of typo, where it's not that you hit the wrong key but you actually type something you don't mean, a "thinko." So think nothing of it (but you're very cute when you blush).
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From:fajrdrako
Date:January 23rd, 2009 01:57 am (UTC)
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Understanding, or trying to understand, or simply suspending judgement, is good.

I think I might be prone to 'thinkos'. At least it wasn't a horrendously embarrassing Freudian slip!
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From:misstopia
Date:January 31st, 2009 02:49 am (UTC)
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Hi there, read this from metafandom, hope you don't mind my butting in. Some women I know like their dark fic to be m/m because it gives them more emotional distance than they'd get reading about a woman/women. Just something else to consider.
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From:mofic
Date:January 31st, 2009 04:01 am (UTC)
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That's an interesting point and not one I've heard articulated before. Thanks for sharing it!
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From:barenakedrachel
Date:January 23rd, 2009 06:08 am (UTC)
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I thought that might have been what you meant, but I wasn't sure, so reading this part definitely clarifies it for me... and I'm honestly shocked to hear that there are women out there who like m/m slash because it's void of women. But maybe I'm more Bi than I realize ;-)

So, really?? I mean, that's just shocking to me! I really, really want to understand this and understand where the women who say this are coming from. Is is really only a matter of taste or is it at all laced with homophobia? Or maybe something about the woman's comfort level with her own body?

In any case, I find it interesting that the slash genre reaches such a diverse population when it might seem to some, from the outside, to be specifically for a homosexual audience.

And I also have to say that, from my limited porn experience, that that stuff written by and for lesbians is INCREDIBLY different than what's produced by men.

Lesbian porn, by which I mean porn written by and for lesbians, seems so much more authentic than all the girl-on-girl crap I've seen that has been made for men, by men.

::shrugs:: I don't know. I don't get out that much!!! ;-)
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From:mofic
Date:January 23rd, 2009 12:39 pm (UTC)
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Is is really only a matter of taste or is it at all laced with homophobia? Or maybe something about the woman's comfort level with her own body?

I don't know. And, as I say elsewhere in this thread, I think it's good to try to analyze and understand kinks, but it's easy to fall into judgmentalism. What turns you on turns you on and there really isn't a moral character to fantasy, or a pointer from it to how one lives one's life. For the most obvious example, lots of women have rape fantasies, but that does not mean they want to be raped, yk?

Why do some women not want to read het sex scenes? I think it varies a lot. Some women who quite enjoy sex themselves don't enjoy descriptions of women having sex; I'm not sure why. Others talk about feeling *jealous* of the woman in the story in ways they don't with slash - that the idea that some other woman has "her" character impedes enjoyment. I do know the "Ewww - het" comments are very common in slash venues.

(Deleted comment)
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From:mofic
Date:January 31st, 2009 02:52 am (UTC)
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I think it makes sense and is related to what I say above about some women feeling jealous of the female character involved with their preferred male character but not feeling that way about a male lover.
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From:kattahj
Date:January 31st, 2009 08:59 am (UTC)
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Is is really only a matter of taste or is it at all laced with homophobia? Or maybe something about the woman's comfort level with her own body?

I've heard some women of this category claim that it becomes too real if one participant is a woman, that the perfect romantic sex becomes entangled with the less romantic reality. And I can certainly understand that perspective, even if I don't share it.
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