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Is M/M Slash Like Pseudo-Lesbian Porn Produced for Straight Men? - Mo's Journal
January 22nd, 2009
02:22 pm

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Is M/M Slash Like Pseudo-Lesbian Porn Produced for Straight Men?

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From:eveningblue
Date:January 23rd, 2009 02:04 am (UTC)
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You bring up a lot of interesting points, so I'm only going to respond to a few.

1- I prefer text to pictures when it comes to porn, but only because underlying picture porn is the knowledge that human beings had to pose or interact for it. That's sort of yucky to me. I want to read explicit porn safe in the knowledge that no one was exploited for it. That's why I prefer book-porn to movie-porn (I'm actually quite a visual person, though I am also very verbal).

2- I have to divide sexually explicit slash from the other kind. SE slash, like other kinds of porn, turns me on, so it's no big secret why I like it. But I also like het porn, and girl-on-girl porn, so.

3- However, non-porny slash, is different. That's more tricky. Why do I like it? I think the main reason I like it is the same reason why I find so few romance movies appealing--the relationship between the two partners is rarely even. I like the kind of slash stories in which an equal partnership is portrayed. (This means I do NOT like the ones in which one of the partners is feminized, or the ones in which one of the men sits around pining for the other, wondering "will he like me too?", etc.)

But I should say I enjoy romances of any kind, straight or gay, if the partners are equal. I just find them hard to find. I like slash stories because they scratch that itch for me.

I'd also like to add that since I joined LJ, I've found way more high-quality slash stories than het or femslash in the fandoms I've been in. Therefore, those are the ones I read. I would like to read more het involving strong man/woman relationships, but I can't seem to find them. When I do, the strong woman is suddenly acting OOC like a baby girl. It's disheartening.


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From:mofic
Date:January 23rd, 2009 02:54 am (UTC)
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Interesting thoughts. Some comments on your comments:

1 - how do you feel about drawn or painted porn, as opposed to photos/videos? I totally agree with you that there isn't the moral ambiguity with stories that there is with photos and videos, where there's concern about whether the models were coerced. OTOH, some people see moral peril in fanfic, seeing it as appropriation of the creative property of someone else. That doesn't bother me (as long as no one tries to pass off characters and ideas of others as their own). I'm also not bothered by RPF, which I know some find morally repugnant. I'm bored by it, but don't think it unethical.

2. A long time ago I wrote a paper on the psychology of humor (that makes me feel like Sherlock Holmes saying "I wrote a monograph on cigarette ashes" BID). I remember reading something in my research (don't remember who said it) that said that it's impossible to write in detail about pornography without the writing being sexually stimulating but detailed writing about humor is rarely funny. I think that's overstated (on the first part, anyway) but it is true that lots of sexually explicit material is sexually arousing. And sometimes gender of the characters doesn't matter so much, even to readers to whom it would matter a lot in real life.

3. I have a very non-romantic view (in general, with exceptions) of relationships and tend to like to read (and write) fiction where the relationships are friendship-based. I'm not sure if that's the same as equal, but I like for the partners to recognize and respect each other's strengths and autonomy.

In your non-numbered points, I do think quality just trumps everything. Even genres I'm not interested in can have a story or two that I find worth reading. And in the two fandoms I read first (X-Men and Star Wars) with a few exceptions I found that there was better slash than het and gen around. I think, to some extent, that may be fandom-specific, though. I think some fandoms lend themselves more to het stories and others more to slash.
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From:eveningblue
Date:January 23rd, 2009 03:14 am (UTC)
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how do you feel about drawn or painted porn

I am good with it! I once found an extremely hot comic... but it crashed my browser and I never could finish it! Seriously, I don't find (or seek out, I guess) drawn or painted porn much.

Funnily, I'm not really into fanart or manips that are NC-17, probably because of an awareness that it's the actors' images that have been used. I'd really rather just see them getting it on in my mind.

And in the two fandoms I read first (X-Men and Star Wars) with a few exceptions I found that there was better slash than het and gen around. I think, to some extent, that may be fandom-specific, though.

I don't know, though. I've found this to be true in my fandoms, as well.

However...

I think some fandoms lend themselves more to het stories and others more to slash.

...since I came to slash through Starsky and Hutch, and migrated to other fandoms based on fan's recommendations, it's possible that most of the recs I saw were for other slash fandoms. So there's that.



[User Picture]
From:eveningblue
Date:January 23rd, 2009 03:25 am (UTC)

also...

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I like it when two characters are snarky/witty with each other (think Hepburn/Tracy) and then have sex and are still snarky/witty with each other.

I hate it when two characters who are snarky/witty with each other have sex and suddenly get all goopy. That's what ruined Moonlighting, if you ask me, and it's ruined a lot of slash, too.
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From:mofic
Date:January 23rd, 2009 03:31 am (UTC)

Re: also...

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Oh I agree that couples who joke are much more fun. I like it when they joke about sex, too.

The Hepburn/Tracy ones tended to end before the goopy part got long, but they did tend to be goopy in the end, I think.

I never saw Moonlighting, but I think it's a m/f private eye team, right? That seems like the kind of thing that lends itself to het fic - when there's two strong characters, one man and one woman, and there's sexual tension between them in canon. If that's not the case with Moonlighting, then I'm thinking of something else...
[User Picture]
From:eveningblue
Date:January 23rd, 2009 11:34 am (UTC)

Re: also...

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No, you're right, but near the end of the series the characters got together and everything went to hell.


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From:dharma_slut
Date:January 31st, 2009 04:04 am (UTC)

here from metafandom

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Hi eveningblue, I like your comments here, especially in combination with mofic's post. And your comments about equal partners is right on target. The other day I had the thought that a lot of slash functions as a place where women can experiment with what a relationship would be like, where both partners were innately equal, and any inequalities are due to the individuals, not their sex.

Oh shite, I've forgotten where I was going with this...

But I write a lot of BDSM, and I cannot write male dom/female sub at this time-- I just can't. In my mind there is no validity to a willed power imbalance, when it's merely the status quo. So my fic will be M/m, F/f, or F/m-- not M/f. And I really like writing f/f porn, with all of the strength and fire I see women longing for and getting by way of m/m slash.
[User Picture]
From:eveningblue
Date:January 31st, 2009 02:59 pm (UTC)

Re: here from metafandom

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where both partners were innately equal, and any inequalities are due to the individuals, not their sex.

That's a good way of putting it.

I cannot write male dom/female sub at this time-- I just can't. In my mind there is no validity to a willed power imbalance, when it's merely the status quo. </>

I like reading bdsm, and I feel the same way. I do like some het bdsm where the woman is the dom, though.
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