Circumcision in Real Life and in Slash - Mo's Journal
Circumcision in Real Life and in Slash|
|Date:||January 22nd, 2007 02:01 am (UTC)|| |
I don't think I'm misunderstanding the mitzvah at all. Perhaps I was unclear? As I said, ime if the parents chose not to circumcise their son, ime the rabbi discusses it with them and makes clear that it will be required if they wish to have a bar mitzvah ceremony in shul.
And yes, I have found that men have been questioned as I said in order to marry. The questioning covers *both* Jewish ancestry and brit milah, precisely because non-ritual circumcision does not count. If there was not a brit milah, often there will be a ceremony (including a drop of blood) in advance of the wedding.
|Date:||January 22nd, 2007 02:36 am (UTC)|| |
I think we're kind of talking at cross-purposes. This will be my last attempt to explain to you what I'm saying, since I seem unable to make myself clear to you, so if it doesn't work this time, I'm going to give up.
I am not saying what you seem to think I'm saying. In my experience, brit milah is deemed very important and parents who choose not to do so for their sons really do end up limiting the son's Jewish practice, at least in communities with which I'm familiar. I am not saying that it's determining of the boy's Judaism *at all*. I am saying that if there is not a proper brit milah in my experience the man is required to undergo that in advance of a bar mitzvah ceremony or wedding, including tifat hadam, if there was a circumcision without brit milah. Clearly your experience differs.
As stated elsewhere, I don't think religion is the only reason to have a Jewish boy circumcised, but it is a potent one in the Jewish communities with which I'm familiar.
|Date:||January 22nd, 2007 02:48 am (UTC)|| |
LOL! Not quite, but close enough. You seem so hung up on "correcting" me for saying that an uncircumcised man isn't Jewish - which I never said, which I don't believe - that you can't seem to understand what I am saying. I don't think "halakhic conformity" is really the issue. Maybe I'll feel more able to get through to you another time, but for now I'm giving up.
Hey, I don't think I've seen you before. How did you come to be reading my journal and commenting?
|Date:||January 22nd, 2007 11:27 am (UTC)|| |
Perhaps you don't have experience of Jews who haven't circumcised their sons, so it hasn't come up in your community? FWIW I don't think I'm talking about "mean rabbis" at all.
In any event, I've already conceded that someone can deceive a whole community if the family so chooses, I just don't know why they would. Anyway, you seem stuck on what really is a side issue and not my point, which was that circumcision is as much about tribal, ethnic, and general belonging issues as it is about religion for many Jews.
|Date:||January 22nd, 2007 12:08 pm (UTC)|| |
Oh and thank you for letting me know where these HP people came from!