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What Does It Mean to Say that Slash is (or isn't) Subversive? - Mo's Journal
January 22nd, 2007
05:12 pm

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What Does It Mean to Say that Slash is (or isn't) Subversive?

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From:thirdblindmouse
Date:January 23rd, 2007 09:50 pm (UTC)
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I'm not sure what the difference between the first two is, but I ticked them because it's sometimes true. At other times authors are perfectly aware of what they're doing and how it's going to be interpreted.

I'm also assuming you meant girlslash as well as boyslash. Sometimes boyslash fandom itself makes me uneasy, or plays more into heterosexual stereotypes than your average het.
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From:mofic
Date:January 23rd, 2007 10:10 pm (UTC)
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My reasoning in giving those first two as distinct possibilities was that for some people it seems that it's creation of a slash fic and/or what happens when it's read that is the subversive act. For others, looking at media and seeing slash possibilities is subversive by itself, even without that creation and sharing.

And I really was only talking about male/male slash, partly because that's what I write and the subset of fandom I'm involved in, and partly because I think some issues are the same and some are different with femslash. If you read my next post, I talk at more length about my own views of what can make m/m slash subversive.

I do recognize that slash often is male/female sex with two male bodies - and not even male/female sex but a stereotypical and unrealistic view of male/female sex. I tried to address that a bit in comments. xtricks speaks very cogently about that form of slash in his journal. Is that what makes you uneasy, or something else?
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From:thirdblindmouse
Date:January 23rd, 2007 11:53 pm (UTC)
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What makes me uncomfortable in boyslash is the sense that this is a boys-only-playground. A boys-only-playground for girls, sure, but while I like the idea of a genre created by women for women, and men getting their chance to be sexually objectified or not, I also like the idea of having my own gender represented in fiction. I feel like there is a large contingency of boyslashers who write it because they don't want to write about women. "Slash: Because girls are icky." "Slash: Because girls are boring." "Slash: Because I couldn't possibly write a heterosexual relationship where the partners are equals."

Which isn't to say that I don't like boyslash (I do) or that I spend my time writing girlslash for great justice (I don't). But I have my reservations about boyslash fandom as a whole, and I think there are some people who could benefit from giving peace girls and even *gasp* het a chance.
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From:mofic
Date:January 24th, 2007 12:00 am (UTC)
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I hate the boys-only-playground kind of slash, as you call it. I call it the "Everyone's Gay" phenomenon. But I hate it for different reasons. I hate it because it's unrealistic. Most people are straight in real life, and the same is true in my fiction, although I focus on the m/m couples. But I do write about the heterosexual relationships and even sometimes show *gasp* heterosexuals having sex. I tend not to write lesbian sex because it feels too personal. I have done it, but in very small amounts and very vanilla, more to round out the character set than anything else.

I actually don't think slash objectifies men, or at least not the slash I like to read and write. I think fully realized sexually active male characters are the antithesis of objectification.

So my guess is you and I have really different tastes in slash...
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From:thirdblindmouse
Date:January 24th, 2007 12:46 am (UTC)
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So my guess is you and I have really different tastes in slash...

In what sense do you mean? Besides differing fandoms, of course.
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From:mofic
Date:January 24th, 2007 01:25 am (UTC)
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Just that you said you like the idea of objectification of men for a change, and I am interested in slash that doesn't objectify. I joke sometimes and call what I write "mutant porn" but I don't actually think it's porn at all. I like character driven fiction where the sex has a real function in the story - exploring a theme, illuminating a character or a relationship, advancing the plot, etc. I'm just guessing - based on the little that you said - that you like more of a sex-for-sex's-sake slash. But maybe I misunderstood.
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From:thirdblindmouse
Date:January 24th, 2007 02:18 am (UTC)
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By objectifying men, I merely meant that the men are there to be ogled for a change, not the women. I suppose it could equally apply to het. It's the general fandom-as-woman's-place that makes that true. And I'm not much interested in sex in or out of fic, so PWPs are lost on me.
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