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What Does It Mean to Say that Slash is (or isn't) Subversive? - Mo's Journal — LiveJournal
January 22nd, 2007
05:12 pm

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What Does It Mean to Say that Slash is (or isn't) Subversive?

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From:mofic
Date:January 23rd, 2007 10:10 pm (UTC)
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My reasoning in giving those first two as distinct possibilities was that for some people it seems that it's creation of a slash fic and/or what happens when it's read that is the subversive act. For others, looking at media and seeing slash possibilities is subversive by itself, even without that creation and sharing.

And I really was only talking about male/male slash, partly because that's what I write and the subset of fandom I'm involved in, and partly because I think some issues are the same and some are different with femslash. If you read my next post, I talk at more length about my own views of what can make m/m slash subversive.

I do recognize that slash often is male/female sex with two male bodies - and not even male/female sex but a stereotypical and unrealistic view of male/female sex. I tried to address that a bit in comments. xtricks speaks very cogently about that form of slash in his journal. Is that what makes you uneasy, or something else?
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From:thirdblindmouse
Date:January 23rd, 2007 11:53 pm (UTC)
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What makes me uncomfortable in boyslash is the sense that this is a boys-only-playground. A boys-only-playground for girls, sure, but while I like the idea of a genre created by women for women, and men getting their chance to be sexually objectified or not, I also like the idea of having my own gender represented in fiction. I feel like there is a large contingency of boyslashers who write it because they don't want to write about women. "Slash: Because girls are icky." "Slash: Because girls are boring." "Slash: Because I couldn't possibly write a heterosexual relationship where the partners are equals."

Which isn't to say that I don't like boyslash (I do) or that I spend my time writing girlslash for great justice (I don't). But I have my reservations about boyslash fandom as a whole, and I think there are some people who could benefit from giving peace girls and even *gasp* het a chance.
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From:mofic
Date:January 24th, 2007 12:00 am (UTC)
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I hate the boys-only-playground kind of slash, as you call it. I call it the "Everyone's Gay" phenomenon. But I hate it for different reasons. I hate it because it's unrealistic. Most people are straight in real life, and the same is true in my fiction, although I focus on the m/m couples. But I do write about the heterosexual relationships and even sometimes show *gasp* heterosexuals having sex. I tend not to write lesbian sex because it feels too personal. I have done it, but in very small amounts and very vanilla, more to round out the character set than anything else.

I actually don't think slash objectifies men, or at least not the slash I like to read and write. I think fully realized sexually active male characters are the antithesis of objectification.

So my guess is you and I have really different tastes in slash...
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From:thirdblindmouse
Date:January 24th, 2007 12:46 am (UTC)
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So my guess is you and I have really different tastes in slash...

In what sense do you mean? Besides differing fandoms, of course.
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From:mofic
Date:January 24th, 2007 01:25 am (UTC)
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Just that you said you like the idea of objectification of men for a change, and I am interested in slash that doesn't objectify. I joke sometimes and call what I write "mutant porn" but I don't actually think it's porn at all. I like character driven fiction where the sex has a real function in the story - exploring a theme, illuminating a character or a relationship, advancing the plot, etc. I'm just guessing - based on the little that you said - that you like more of a sex-for-sex's-sake slash. But maybe I misunderstood.
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From:thirdblindmouse
Date:January 24th, 2007 02:18 am (UTC)
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By objectifying men, I merely meant that the men are there to be ogled for a change, not the women. I suppose it could equally apply to het. It's the general fandom-as-woman's-place that makes that true. And I'm not much interested in sex in or out of fic, so PWPs are lost on me.
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