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What I Learned in My First Poll - Mo's Journal
January 23rd, 2007
02:10 pm

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What I Learned in My First Poll

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From:thelastgoodname
Date:January 24th, 2007 04:45 am (UTC)
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I think I meant a story that was exclusively about two men (not just about a relationship between two men with additional cultural context and characters included, but a story wherein the only two characters are two men and the story is only about is the process of those two men {eventually} having sex with each other, whether it takes a long time or not) cannot by itself subvert patriarchy, but I might not have said it very clearly.

As an aside, much of gay male culture, especially in the west, is patriarchally-oriented, if patriarchy is understood as a male-dominated society where patrilineal descent determines social relations and social standing. The sex stuff can be threatening, but in many cultures, it's only the bottom that is in a threatening position, and the bottom is often in a similarly gendered position to women, while tops are in a similar position to straight men. In these cases, the liminal suggestion of male-male sexual context is ignored in favor of reinscribing that contact with traditional social positions, and the same social relations of men over women (pun intended) continue to be supported.

What I was focusing on was the notion that in our culture -- where male is the default for everything from seatbelts to doses of medicine -- a story that completely excludes women can't be read as subverting the idea that men -- as a category, if not as individuals -- are in a dominant social role.
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From:mofic
Date:January 24th, 2007 10:54 am (UTC)
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I think you make some very good points. Again, though, I don't think that your points apply to all of slash. I also think that - as I said in the essay - gay male culture is extraordinarily varied in both its sexual and social structures, just as lesbian culture is.
From:thelastgoodname
Date:January 25th, 2007 09:28 pm (UTC)
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Which is why we both end up with the idea that, yes, slash can be, but isn't necessarily, subversive.
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